Talk:Tizona
Effect Math If we assume it is correct to say 10-20 MP is recovered per proc and that it procs 10% of the time, the effect on Tizona can be said to be equivalent to the following: Single Weilding 1.584 MP/tick Duel Wielding 1.04 MP/tick Keep in mind that this is with capped accuracy (95%), 33% haste (18% in gear + haste spell) and assuming you never cast, weapon skill, or switch targets, as these would only lower the effectiveness (and the numbers above). Equation: (Average of MP drained amount)/(proc rate%)/(Attack rounds per second)*3/100*95 So yeah... These numbers are highly disappointing and dissuaded me from picking Tizona for the 2010 Nomad Bonanza. lol -- 05:01, February 21, 2010 (UTC) OMFG!!! -nuff said --Blazza 02:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC) "Occasionally converts damage dealt"? Sounds like the perfect way to keep things going without needing to rest. Though I suspect it won't be ALL of the damage dealt, it might just be too crazy if Disseverments randomly give you a full MP Bar. --Taeria Saethori 02:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Yeah lol, occasionally gives you back 1k mp... I'd assume it's damage dealt from weapon hits only, not spells, and also either really rarely or just a %'age. However you calculate it, it still sounds a lot better than leech scimitar and hofud, especially with the macc. --Blazza 02:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC) I'll have to agree, this sword is full of win for blu. If the macc and the converting damage to MP werent enough for you, blu finally has access to a sword that can attack more than once. Its tough to say anything bad about this weapon. Lets just hope it proc's like a Soboro :P Jy 16:33, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Even if the proc rate on both the mp drain/convert thing and the double are attack are both crap, it's still a kick ass weapon. It's also the 5th highest DoT mythic weapon. Still, we can only hope that mp convert is a decent proc rate and that double attack (for all mythic weapons) procs about as often as jailer weapons do :p Also, is it time to start rumours about hidden effects yet? Like Occasionally does double damage, or w/e relics do. :p --Blazza 17:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Okay, I heard a nasty rumor... Do you guys think the "Occasionally Attacks Twice" effect will only proc as a result of Aftermath? Still the best weapon for BLU hands down, but the syntax on the item description has me worried, we all know how much SE likes to give BLU the shaft. I hope someone gets this weapon soon so we can find out =D --Kim2jy 13:35, 1 October 2008 (EST) :weird, I thought I'd already asked that, maybe somewhere else. I think it's quite likely that it does, which could make the double attack almost negligible. But really, Blu doesn't need a double attack sword. Everyone bitches because blu can't use ridill (not that I'll ever get one anyway) or joyeuse or justice sword... but who cares? When I have enough refresh my sword is only there so it looks like I'm doing something when waiting on cool down for the big three. When I don't have a lot of refresh, and am fighting consistently for a long time, that little bit of double attack from aftermath should be just enough to get me to 100% tp once a minute while still being able to cast a spell here and there. Meaning that I can comfortably do two ws's per Chain Affinity recast. Parse a merit party with a lolpld or something and a blu. They can both be using two swords of very similar delay, both have the same hit ratio, but the pld will swing about twice as often, the bulk of blu damage doesn't come from swords, and if you need double attack to fill your tp in 2 minutes then you have some problems. :What I'm saying, is that whether the "occasionally attacks twice" procs on every second hit, or if it only procs once or twice after each ws, it's still just an added bonus to the other awesome stuff this sword adds. --Blazza 05:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC) ::I agree with you, it is of no consequence in deciding the weapon's worth, certainly. It is the best weapon for BLU in the game(as it should be), but it is an added bonus that would make BLU a much more formidable ally(or enemy, in a ballista sense, hehehe). I feel that, while a good BLU doesn't need double attack, the amount of boons that Blue Mage has gotten in comparison to those given to other jobs is remarkably small, and I think that a double-attack weapon is the least that endgame BLU's should get as a reward for all that effort. ::Either way, I'll be letting this sword consume my FFXI life(which is, regrettably, not a whole lot of time) until it adorns my side for all to behold and salivate over =D Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Blazza! --Kim2jy 13:35, 1 October 2008 (EST) :::lol, you write about it in such wonderful prose, you're not a role player are you? --Blazza 00:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC) ::::Is it wrong to type cleanly and concisely? Methods of 'quick-typing', including shortening words, ignoring capitalization, and avoiding punctuation is not the only way to speak on the internet. (Though, tragically, it's the most common.) --Taeria Saethori 05:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC) :::::It was meant as a compliment... I thought the word wonderful would have given that away <_<. Actually the death of the English language on the internet saddens me. But on the plus side, all you need to do to get a job these days is write your resume with no spelling mistakes and you're already ahead of 90% of the other applicants :D --Blazza 07:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::Thank you for the compliment, Blazza! I'm not a career roleplayer, though I've found it fun to dabble every now and again. I'm actually an English major in college, so that's why I mostly appreciate good grammar and punctuation, especially on the internet. I respect "Internet Lingo" as a new form of language, and I've been guilty of more than a few "lol's," but it seems lazy to me, for the most part. I do my best to type this way, both in the game and out of it. By the way, I just got my Mirage Jubbah about five minutes ago =D ::::::Good luck getting this sword everyone, I've got my Wightslayer, so now begins the arduous upgrade process >.< --Kim2jy 21:41, 17 December 2008 (EST) With the Double Attack from the Aftermath, this might counteract the loss of TP due to offhanding a Mistilteinn (which I don't know if any of you have actually tried, but I have... sucks at the moment due to no multi-hit weapon and not being able to get to 100tp before CA is up). Something to think about. Also, you do not have to be engaged to a mob for Mistilteinn to drain your TP -> MP, which is something that I guess I should go around and fix everywhere... --Genosync 08:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC) Tizona Completed In case no one has heard, a Tizona has been finished. As of right now, it looks like the the drain effect is about 10-20 mp and procs about 10% on melee strikes. It also does not appear to proc on spells, just melee strikes. In all, it ends up working out to about an extra 3mp/tic. I'm personally really disappointed in this, I was hoping it would be a lot better. --Wraith Lakshmi 12:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Oh come on now, with Auto-Refresh set and the relic body, that's 2MP a tick right there, plus if you have a RDM that's another 3mp a tick, and WITH the Mythic weapon that's a total of 8MP a tick. You realize how ridiculous that is? Nearly infinite Headbutts.--Maerina 19:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC) lol, how could you be disappointed by an extra 3mp/tic? O_o Think back to being around level 40, and how crap it was with no refresh at all. Then you get to 41 and you have rdm in your party, and OMG! It makes such a difference! Well if Tizona equates to ~3mp/tic, then it would be just like that... plus of course, any of these: auto-refresh, sanction, relic body, balrahn's ring, refresh spell, ballad 1 & 2, cor refresh (whatever it's called). If you were expecting every second melee hit to return full damage in mp then you were expecting a game breaking weapon of monstrous proportions. All I want to know, is does it work on undead? --Blazza 12:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC) Do Drain and Aspir effects ever work on undead? --Volkai 18:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC) :Compare: "Additional effect: MP drain" (Leech Scimitar) vs. "Occ. converts damage dealt to MP" (Tizona). Converting the damage YOU do != draining the MP directly from the mob. Besides, it's confirmed to "work" on mobs without MP, I don't see why it for some reason wouldn't "work" on undead. (Just be glad this game isn't like the rest of the series where draining undead hurts you and heals them...) 23:49, 4 March 2009 (UTC) ::Aye, I would assume that it works on undead because of the two reasons you just gave, but confirmation is always a good thing, you can never assume things with SE --Blazza 11:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC) :::While I don't have a Tizona and it's merely speculation on my part like your own, Spirit Taker is "Converts damage dealt to own MP" and works perfectly on undead. --Linoth 20:14, November 20, 2009 (UTC) MP conversion works on all mobs types. There's no proc in the log, your MP is just boosted. Proc rate is about 1/10 for an average of 10-14MP per proc (~70%). Lows around 6-8MP (~20%), rare highs around 18-25MP (~10%) Sadly the 3MP/tick is untrue. Closer to .5MP or 1MP/tick (when dual wielding.) Simply put, take the 12MP average and divide by how many ticks there are in 10 attack rounds. "Occasionally boosts MP when striking" would have been better description, since there seems to be very little to no correlation between how much damage is dealt and how much MP is boosted. --Pendragon00 14:02, November 30, 2009 (UTC) If a 10% proc rate is accurate along with a 12mp average return, then the average mp/tic would be .71 if you are dual wielding. If you are only swinging with tizona it would be about 1.2mp/tic. This assumes all gear haste blu can wear (turban, swift belt, homam hands legs feet) and suppi if dual wielding. 60 delay = 1 rl second. Tizona(236) + Perdu(225) = 461/1.2 (delay reduction from /nin + suppi) = 384 delay / 60 = 6.402 seconds between swings. The most haste a blu can get solo is 27% (gear + refueling). 6.402/1.27 = 5.04 delay between swings. 5.04 * 10 rounds = 50.4 seconds. 50.4/3 (rl elapsed seconds for each tick) = 16ticks per 10 rounds of swinging. 12mp (average mp conversion amount) / 16 = .71. If you do not dual wield swing with just tizona, you get 10 ticks per 10 rounds of swinging (making the same assumptions). Therefore, single handing tiz results in average of 1.2mp/tick. Basically, if you using this exclusively for refresh, dont dual wield. Whether or not .7~1.2mp/tic is worth 120 mil in alex is debatable. However, this plus af2 or morrigan body plus auto refresh from spells is about 3mp/tic solo. In addition, you can go crazy and stack up ethereal earring and hofud. Thats a pretty solid mp refresh build. I can think of a number of situations i wish i had this. Especially conquest area events like Dyna. Tizona owner here. It's wrong to say that you get a blunt amount of MP/minute when using this because it's extremely dependant on your buffs, food, SJ, rest of your gear and -most importantly- what you're fighting. 3 MP/tick on what? What was the guy who claimed that fighting? Regarding the MP conversion, from my tests it's everywhere between 10 and 35%. Proc rate is somewhere between 10 and 12%. Been said that, with songs, rolls, haste, pizza and /WAR I've been able to get roughly 90 MP/min consistently in Dynamis and, against mobs that take extra damage like Bhaflau Remnants rampart mobs, it's not too hard to get something like 150 MP/min or more. This is not factoring AM3. Of course, against harder mobs and if you're dual-wielding the amount of MP/min is much lower; in Einherjar it's usually 30-40 MP/min. And you can't expect decent results if you melee things that resist slashing damage like skeletons. tl;dr: the initial 3 MP/tick claim, while not accurate isn't terribly misleading; it can be more or less than that. When I got mine, alexandrites were much cheaper than now so 75m was a decent price. 120m seems way overpriced though, so I don't know if it's worth it anymore. If you ask me, the advantage Tizona has is to allow BLU to benefit more from non-refresh songs/rolls, which makes the job slightly more useful in a typical melee party in events like Dynamis and Limbus, as BLU is intended to be both a damage dealer and a support unit in those instances. Sorry, forgot to sign the above. --Nevex People also seem to be ignoring the healthy +10 Magic Accuracy, the "Occasionally Attacks Twice" (which I'm certain boosts the sword's DPS above it's baseline 10.68), and the Aftermath effect. If you start using Darkness Skillchains more often, you'll be getting some very healthy boosts to your accuracy/magic accuracy, making landing debuffs and stat-independent spells, such as Heat Breath, feasible without a staff. If you ask me, those effects alone eclipse the private refresh effect, which is a welcome bonus regardless. While I think the aftermath should have been Attack/Magic Attack instead, you can't deny that this effect could be extremely useful, depending on how you use it... --Eremes 17:16, February 15, 2010 (UTC) The "Occasionally Attacks Twice" is the Aftermath effect for using Expiacion at 300% TP. Also, Accuracy+ is far more valuable than Attack+, as Accuracy+ affects both melee attacks and physical spells, while Attack+ affects only melee, not physical spells. As for Magic Attack vs. Magic Accuracy, consider the number of breath spells Blue Mage has. IIRC, MAB does not affect them... but Magic Accuracy does. This goes double for non-damaging magic spells. --Volkai 17:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :Furthermore, the Magic Accuracy aftermath bonus applies only with a 200%-299%TP Expiacion. --Volkai 17:43, February 15, 2010 (UTC) I think you misunderstand me. I said, given the base Magic Accuracy from the sword and from aftermath effect, it could be feasible to use debuffs and Breath spells without a staff. That, in my opinion, is the proper use of the aftermath effect because without an increase in potency of a stat-based nuke, you're better off using a staff. Breath spells like Heat Breath and spells such as Sheep Song and MP Drainkiss are almost entirely dependent on skill and magic accuracy, which is why a Magic Accuracy aftermath is ideal for these. Enhanced Magic Attack would be welcome to all Blue Magic spells as well, including breaths. Magic Attack =/= Magic Attack Bonus. And yes, your rudimentary lesson on how Blue Magic works is very informative, but Blue Mage has access to a near-superfluous amount of both accuracy and magic accuracy from gear, food, and merits. Missing is not so much an issue for well-geared Blue Mages as hitting for 5-10 damage on IT+ enemies is. Even more useful would be something similar to "Blue Magic: Physical Attack," which is now available through Synergy. I don't need Tizona to have 90%+ accuracy or land most of my spells unresisted, but if Tizona could enhance the potency of my spells in ways that other pieces of gear could not, that would make it a gem for any Blue Mage. --Eremes 23:50, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Numbers behind damage to MP conversion? While it seems certain that the proc rate for this effect is 10%, what is the amount of MP returned? Is it a flat rate like Mjollnir's? Or is it based on the amount of damage of the swing, and if so, what percentage is it? If anyone can provide data, it would go a long way to completing the information on this weapon and the level 80's upgraded effect.--Mooffins 14:23, August 10, 2010 (UTC) From my testing on the lvl75 version, I never saw lower than 5, never saw higher than 25. The amount converted hardly seemed (or not at all) tied into the actual damage done. Definitely not a specific percentage of the swing. --Pendragon00 15:49, August 11, 2010 (UTC)